In exactly one week I board a plane for Nelson. With the flights booked and paid for, the cost of childcare, accommodation and counselling alone will cost money we honestly don't have and I am getting cold feet. It's not just the money causing the cold feet either. It's also the fact that my ex-husband has basically spent no time with me at all and shown no interest in doing so - literally dropping our son off or picking him up and going with no more than a brief exchange. Some days I barely hear from him except for occasionally to establish that we are ok to appease his anxious mind (alive and well). And the one time we have spent literally an hour together, we argue.
The other reason is that despite the fact that I have changed my profile on the internet dating sites I've joined (but not a paying member) to say that I'm not interested in a relationship at this stage, just friendship - I have nevertheless chatted with probably 5 men all of whom seem very promising in terms of looks and intelligence but at the moment there is one in particular that is standing out to me. We have been messaging back on forth and "getting to know each other" which has been building very slowly... He is a father of two children, the youngest is 2yo same as mine. He has full custody or day-to-day care because their mother couldn't cope with them. That struck me immediately because I am always impressed with fathers that are devoted to their children - not that it's a given just because he has custody of them but as I read his profile and got to know him it is very obvious. To me it says a lot about a person's character: their kindness, their love, their commitment, their willingness to sacrifice. Yes these are all things most mothers do naturally but it still impresses me in a man. And in fact we have a lot in common in that we both have had to take the bulk of the childcare on our shoulders because the other parent has not been able to cope with too much responsibility. Neither of us has much in the way of family support. Neither of us gets much of a break. Sure, this makes for practical problems when it comes to dating but it's something that we've had in common and can relate to one another.
He has a Lawnmowing Business. Although the Business side of it won't be, the trade/service itself certainly doesn't take a lot of brain-power so I wondered whether in fact he was at all intelligent. And I certainly felt a bit concerned when he said "I'm taking the kids to Dennys for Breakfast - have you heard of it?" Who hasn't? But as we've got talking, he tells me that he is an avid reader and frequents book stores including 2nd hand bookstores and reads a whole range of literature - lately it has been history. This says a lot to me because when you are widely read, you usually have a good general knowledge and therefore often have something to contribute to a whole range of topics of conversations. My ex-husband is not well-educated - he left high school at age 15 and never completed a tertiary qualification but he is an intelligent man for the exact same reason. He is widely read, researches topics, loves history and so on. He has a Managerial role currently and I think that if it wasn't for his anxiety he would be an extremely capable man.
So while my ex-husband has not shown a lot of interest in spending time with me or talking with me, I have been coming home from work or putting Nathan to bed and going to speak with Mr. Lawnmower-Man. And after that argument my ex and I had when we did actually spend time together - it was nice to have such an easy, pleasant conversation with this other guy who was genuinely interested in what I had to say.
I haven't met him and I haven't made plans to meet him but he said a comment to me tonight that I found made me feel excited: he said "You had better be careful young lady you may get me falling for you!" I replied that he's not allowed to simply because a) we hadn't met and b) I wanted to start out being friends to which he replied that I was a clever young lady (and wise) and "don't you change!" But inwardly I was excited. It's been gradual and warm and respectful and he strikes me as quiet and gentle but not boring or a pushover. He comes across that way but I'm very aware that what people are like in person can be a different thing altogether!
We haven't made any plans to meet or even talk on the phone. Neither of us has brought it up. I haven't for obvious reasons, but clearly he's happy to let things go along slowly as they are. But here's the dilemma... I haven't met him and even if I had I won't know for some time (I would think) whether there's potential there with this guy or any other guy. But the fact that I consider it makes me question my own commitment to trying to make my marriage work. I feel extremely ambivalent as to whether I want to even try - both of us would have to change dramatically. Both of us would have to work on our individual issues that pushed the others' buttons. We would have to continue marriage counselling for a year I would think to deal with all the issues there. It would be extremely hard work. In the meantime, there's nothing there right at this point in time that is good between us. There's barely even a friendship - we don't spend time together, we fight when we do (most of the time), there's certainly no physical affection or apparent sexual attraction on his part (though he assures me he finds me attractive - but it's clear at the moment he doesn't "want me"). Besides loyalty to him, the fact that he's my son's father and commitment to the institution of marriage - I don't know why I'm going.
I think if I'm altogether honest, I had questioned myself whether I had given it all I could, and had maybe a sense of conscience about that but also the matter rose out of the fact that I had become sick of the dating game and found myself alone. That is such a selfish reason but if I'm honest, it's definitely part of the reason I decided to embark on this journey. I know that in some ways I would like for the counsellor to look at our situation and tell us it's over. On the other hand, I know I would experience grief and sadness if that were the case. I'm also concerned that after all the counselling, hard work and dealing with our issues - the best we can achieve is a marriage that is literally a friendship. Having shared these concerns with my ex-husband, he has said himself that there are no guarantees that we will have a loving relationship where there is a connection between us emotionally, physically and sexually. He has told me that currently he avoids spending time with me because he finds our exchanges full of drama and difficulty and he finds it draining. I said to him if we are going to work on our marriage it will no doubt be draining and he would need to spend time with me. So I'm just not even sure he's up to the task.
It seems like a very high price to pay to attempt to work out our marriage: not just financially but also the fact that I will no doubt continue to be lonely as we continue in counselling for about a year - and will not be able to date or see or consider other men - would have to give up anyone I have currently met or been in contact with, and instead live an affection-free, sex-free, intimacy-free life doing the hard yards with my ex for a while. Then there's the energy it requires to work on our relationship. And for what? No guarantees whatsoever.
My ex-husband has expressed grave concerns about us going to Nelson and spending $1000 that we don't have on flights, accommodation, counselling and childcare and being in debt to both my mother and the counsellor by trying to pay them back when we barely can make ends meet (either of us). Having looked up the conditions of our flights - it looks likely that I will cancel the flights. Whether we instead accept telephone counselling by this counsellor in Nelson at a later stage when we can afford it, I don't know. It's very confusing. I am completely torn about the whole thing. My ex-husband wants me to think about it and give an answer tomorrow.
I haven't given a good case for going to Nelson except in my previous blog posting "10 Reasons Not To Date Your Husband" or whatever I called it - further down below those reasons I gave reasons why I was considering marriage counselling.
Some of you blog readers are strangers to me, some are friends. Regardless, I'd appreciate your feedback while I consider again whether or not to go to Nelson and have the counselling, remain in Auckland and just pay for telephone counselling with this particular counsellor (whose style of counselling I believe is our best chance) or flag the whole thing.
The other reason is that despite the fact that I have changed my profile on the internet dating sites I've joined (but not a paying member) to say that I'm not interested in a relationship at this stage, just friendship - I have nevertheless chatted with probably 5 men all of whom seem very promising in terms of looks and intelligence but at the moment there is one in particular that is standing out to me. We have been messaging back on forth and "getting to know each other" which has been building very slowly... He is a father of two children, the youngest is 2yo same as mine. He has full custody or day-to-day care because their mother couldn't cope with them. That struck me immediately because I am always impressed with fathers that are devoted to their children - not that it's a given just because he has custody of them but as I read his profile and got to know him it is very obvious. To me it says a lot about a person's character: their kindness, their love, their commitment, their willingness to sacrifice. Yes these are all things most mothers do naturally but it still impresses me in a man. And in fact we have a lot in common in that we both have had to take the bulk of the childcare on our shoulders because the other parent has not been able to cope with too much responsibility. Neither of us has much in the way of family support. Neither of us gets much of a break. Sure, this makes for practical problems when it comes to dating but it's something that we've had in common and can relate to one another.
He has a Lawnmowing Business. Although the Business side of it won't be, the trade/service itself certainly doesn't take a lot of brain-power so I wondered whether in fact he was at all intelligent. And I certainly felt a bit concerned when he said "I'm taking the kids to Dennys for Breakfast - have you heard of it?" Who hasn't? But as we've got talking, he tells me that he is an avid reader and frequents book stores including 2nd hand bookstores and reads a whole range of literature - lately it has been history. This says a lot to me because when you are widely read, you usually have a good general knowledge and therefore often have something to contribute to a whole range of topics of conversations. My ex-husband is not well-educated - he left high school at age 15 and never completed a tertiary qualification but he is an intelligent man for the exact same reason. He is widely read, researches topics, loves history and so on. He has a Managerial role currently and I think that if it wasn't for his anxiety he would be an extremely capable man.
So while my ex-husband has not shown a lot of interest in spending time with me or talking with me, I have been coming home from work or putting Nathan to bed and going to speak with Mr. Lawnmower-Man. And after that argument my ex and I had when we did actually spend time together - it was nice to have such an easy, pleasant conversation with this other guy who was genuinely interested in what I had to say.
I haven't met him and I haven't made plans to meet him but he said a comment to me tonight that I found made me feel excited: he said "You had better be careful young lady you may get me falling for you!" I replied that he's not allowed to simply because a) we hadn't met and b) I wanted to start out being friends to which he replied that I was a clever young lady (and wise) and "don't you change!" But inwardly I was excited. It's been gradual and warm and respectful and he strikes me as quiet and gentle but not boring or a pushover. He comes across that way but I'm very aware that what people are like in person can be a different thing altogether!
We haven't made any plans to meet or even talk on the phone. Neither of us has brought it up. I haven't for obvious reasons, but clearly he's happy to let things go along slowly as they are. But here's the dilemma... I haven't met him and even if I had I won't know for some time (I would think) whether there's potential there with this guy or any other guy. But the fact that I consider it makes me question my own commitment to trying to make my marriage work. I feel extremely ambivalent as to whether I want to even try - both of us would have to change dramatically. Both of us would have to work on our individual issues that pushed the others' buttons. We would have to continue marriage counselling for a year I would think to deal with all the issues there. It would be extremely hard work. In the meantime, there's nothing there right at this point in time that is good between us. There's barely even a friendship - we don't spend time together, we fight when we do (most of the time), there's certainly no physical affection or apparent sexual attraction on his part (though he assures me he finds me attractive - but it's clear at the moment he doesn't "want me"). Besides loyalty to him, the fact that he's my son's father and commitment to the institution of marriage - I don't know why I'm going.
I think if I'm altogether honest, I had questioned myself whether I had given it all I could, and had maybe a sense of conscience about that but also the matter rose out of the fact that I had become sick of the dating game and found myself alone. That is such a selfish reason but if I'm honest, it's definitely part of the reason I decided to embark on this journey. I know that in some ways I would like for the counsellor to look at our situation and tell us it's over. On the other hand, I know I would experience grief and sadness if that were the case. I'm also concerned that after all the counselling, hard work and dealing with our issues - the best we can achieve is a marriage that is literally a friendship. Having shared these concerns with my ex-husband, he has said himself that there are no guarantees that we will have a loving relationship where there is a connection between us emotionally, physically and sexually. He has told me that currently he avoids spending time with me because he finds our exchanges full of drama and difficulty and he finds it draining. I said to him if we are going to work on our marriage it will no doubt be draining and he would need to spend time with me. So I'm just not even sure he's up to the task.
It seems like a very high price to pay to attempt to work out our marriage: not just financially but also the fact that I will no doubt continue to be lonely as we continue in counselling for about a year - and will not be able to date or see or consider other men - would have to give up anyone I have currently met or been in contact with, and instead live an affection-free, sex-free, intimacy-free life doing the hard yards with my ex for a while. Then there's the energy it requires to work on our relationship. And for what? No guarantees whatsoever.
My ex-husband has expressed grave concerns about us going to Nelson and spending $1000 that we don't have on flights, accommodation, counselling and childcare and being in debt to both my mother and the counsellor by trying to pay them back when we barely can make ends meet (either of us). Having looked up the conditions of our flights - it looks likely that I will cancel the flights. Whether we instead accept telephone counselling by this counsellor in Nelson at a later stage when we can afford it, I don't know. It's very confusing. I am completely torn about the whole thing. My ex-husband wants me to think about it and give an answer tomorrow.
I haven't given a good case for going to Nelson except in my previous blog posting "10 Reasons Not To Date Your Husband" or whatever I called it - further down below those reasons I gave reasons why I was considering marriage counselling.
Some of you blog readers are strangers to me, some are friends. Regardless, I'd appreciate your feedback while I consider again whether or not to go to Nelson and have the counselling, remain in Auckland and just pay for telephone counselling with this particular counsellor (whose style of counselling I believe is our best chance) or flag the whole thing.
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Anonymous said...why do you have to date anyone?
you've just come out of marriage and you have major issues, if I was you, I'd step back from everything. or are you psychologically dependent on men and you're the kind of person who needs someone all the time? I'd work on you for counselling rather than a marriage or even dating. all this sounds like you're just trying to look for someone as you can't be alone.
are you writing a book? what is all this in aid of?
28 February 2012 03:46
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why do you have to date anyone?
you've just come out of marriage and you have major issues, if I was you, I'd step back from everything. or are you psychologically dependent on men and you're the kind of person who needs someone all the time? I'd work on you for counselling rather than a marriage or even dating. all this sounds like you're just trying to look for someone as you can't be alone.
are you writing a book? what is all this in aid of?
oh - your husband sounds horrid, just expressing my opinion. but if you want to work it out with him, go for it, he sounds better than the scenic drive dude.
sorry, my prior comment - I stuffed it up, but you get the gist, I cut and paste as at first it didn't paste. cheers
ReplyDeleteThank you for your opinion. I'm not psychologically dependent on men and it's been 18mths since my marriage ended so in some ways no I don't have problems with being alone - on the other hand it does get quite lonely. I started dating about 6mths ago and it helped me to "move on". It's quite a challenge to turn back the clock having moved on and reconsider my marriage again.
ReplyDeleteIt's such a tough call but from everything you've said - not just in this post, but in others too, I would cancel the flights and put off the decision about telephone (or skype conference) counseling until you feel more certain.
ReplyDeleteIf your ex was committed to making this work, he would be going out of his way to spend time with you and working out the issues. He wouldn't be complaining about going to Nelson but if he was really concerned about the cost, he would seek alternative solutions rather than complaining about the cost.
You've mentioned that you are a Christian, have you tried praying about it? When I was still married I kept praying for a sign so obvious and definite that I couldn't ignore. It came!! I will say though, that there were probably many earlier signs that I doubted whether it was the sign I was asking for and so in the end things were SO bad that I have never once doubted my decision. I got my doubts out of the way before I left. I don't know whether that helps you or not!
Thanks for your comments Nicola. It turns out that I cannot cancel the flights since they were "Grab One" deals. Therefore since they cost $500 I will be going with or without him. As it stands he is having a major staffing issue and issues at work so despite now knowing I cannot cancel the flights, he has said to me "he doesn't know" whether or not he can go down to Nelson with me. I have to agree with you that even though I understand how stressful he finds his job it does seem that in this case he is putting it before our marriage.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned that I was a Christian, yes, but I would say I am more of a believer than a follower - there are many areas in my life where I don't think I'm following the Christian faith as it needs to be followed and that I don't seem to have yet made a decision to change that - but I agree with you, even though I haven't formally prayed for a long time, I will pray about this as you've suggested.
Thanks Nicola.
hmmm,
ReplyDeleteIn reading the latest installment, firstly I wouldnt take any "bird in the bush" into consideration as to if you work on your marriage. Its nice to have a connection etc with mr lawnmower, but we all know its EARLY days to put any weight on it working out.
So looking at the marriage on its own...
From my divorce scenario, I believe if this marriage is to turn around and be healed, it will take a willingness on both parties to walk over hot coals, for many months, to get to a stage of it being healthy and close to reconciliation. You have proved you are willing to do what it takes, and cold feet or ambivilence are not indicators that you arent, its just normal. If he cant make it happen, then he is not invested enough to do the hard yards, and from what I know, this situation isnt in need of a few counselling niceties,eg go on date nights, remember why you fell in love, its alot of blimmen hard work and going to ouchy places and being willing to change from both of you. So if either of you, or both of you arent willing to go the hot coals route, then sign the death certificate and move on. A few sessions with Mr Nelso will be very beneficial to you even on your own to sign this death certificate, as I believe you need it to let yourself accept it as dead. Actually, I know in crises he has given me 10 or 20 minutes between his other sessions to help me, so give Mr Nelson a call, (email or call Mrs Nelson first and she will tell you a time to skype) and bring him into the crucial decision making that is happening currently.
In reading your latest blog, I thought of do-er upper houses, have you seen that program about people who bought houses in the UK and found that they were a nightmare. Sometimes houses can be salvages, new foundations etc, or sometimes you just gotta cut your losses and mourn the falling in love and what it cost you.
Thats my 2 cents worth
= Austins Mum
Thanks Austins mum :) appreciate your imput.
DeleteJust wanted to give some advice re Mr Lawn-Mower Man, it's great that you feel some connection, but please don't get carried away with his comments - the warm fuzzies comments like theses give is nice, and yes you should enjoy them, but I have learnt that they mean nothing until you actually meet and the connection is there in the real world.
ReplyDeleteYes I totally agree and trying to hold myself back but I can't help but look forward to talking to him when I come home at night! Perhaps would be wise to meet before too long?
Delete